Mindbody Therapy

Accupuncture, Reiki, Cognitive Behavourial Therapy, Prolotheraphy, Radio Frequency, Hypnotherapy, Osteopathy and many more.

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby Dusty_in_Hope » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:49 am

Dusty wrote on another thread:
In reading about the technique that you use, i.e. feeling negative emotions associated with upsetting things (rather than thinking about those upsetting things) so that a physical release can occur and you can lose the physical pain caused, I have a question: How does it work when you are stuck between a rock and hard place, i.e. when something keeps upsetting you and the alternatives would be equally as upsetting? - Any physical release wouldn't be long lasting and so there would be little opportunity for the pain to go away permanently.


Ezer replied on that other thread:
Dusty, could you elaborate? I am not sure I understand what you mean by alternative. You need to feel your emotions. It is a physical sensation, not a thought. It shouldn't upset you. If you get upset it is because you are thinking about a negative event, not feeling your emotion.

Please remember that you do not need to resolve conflicts to heal. All you need is to reconnect with those negative emotions that you want to avoid.

Obviously if your negative emotions are more of a traumatic/PTSD nature you may need professional help. Some people say that EMDR is very helpful. I have no experience. For me it was key to realize that I needed to do the work myself and not rely on yet another book or mind body expert.

I understand that you have a rectocele and it is hard to get passed such a physical and visible problem but I did not think it is a painful condition. I was also diagnosed with PNE by 5 physicians. That was difficult to overcome mentally. The PNE diagnosis is the worst enemy of healing because it instills a doubt.


Rectoceles can cause pain - passing a stool (despite following instructions to eat fibre to keep the stools soft, get into a squatting or partial squatting position and digitising) can feel like you're trying to pass a huge cannon ball - because essentially you're trying to pass fecal 'balls' rather than fecal 'sausages' (pardon 'the too much information' :oops: ). This can also cause painful fissures and piles. Many women with rectoceles also report backache and a dragging, nagging, aching sensation for much, if not all, of the time. With regard to pn-like pain though, I have only read (anecdotally) that a rectocele can stretch the nerve and cause pain - I'm trying to find out if that's actually true or not.

By 'alternatives' I mean other options (in this case the only other options being equally as bad as the existing conflict). When you say you do not need to resolve conflicts to heal, I'm wondering how you can achieve permanent healing when a particular conflict keeps occurring (and you're powerless to resolve or change that conflict for the better). The process of healing, if I comprehend it correctly, is that you don't 'think' about the conflict you 'feel' the emotion associated with it instead (which I do understand wouldn't be upsetting) and then there's (hopefully) a physical release of some kind (e.g. a shiver, a relaxing of some muscles, crying or whatever) and that release enables healing. However, wouldn't there be a barrier to a permanent healing if said conflict is happening over and over again, i.e. you experience the conflict, you allow yourself to feel the associated emotion and you experience a release - you experience the conflict, you allow yourself to feel the associated emotion and you experience the release - and so on and so on - a kind of groundhog day where the 'wound' is continually opening and closing. I can see, however, that it would/could work for things that happened to you in the past - you allow yourself to feel the associated emotion, you experience a physical release and that would likely be the end of the matter. (Sorry, I'm probably being a bit thick about this - and overcomplicating things!)

Thanks

Dusty
Dusty_in_Hope
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby ezer » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:14 pm

Maybe it is easier for me to tell you about my case and you can maybe extrapolate to your own situation and see how that may apply.
There were 3 events that were painful and that I always tried to gloss over or repress.
I was molested by a male babysitter (nothing horrible but it affected me for sure). My father that had been in an internment camp during the war and suffered badly was dark and very tyrannical at times. Then he was murdered when I was a teenager.

I never wanted to think about those events. But by forcing myself to feel those negative emotions, they lost their power on me. At this point, I can go over them and be pretty indifferent.

But there is also the current day to day stuff to consider. When there is a conflict, I try to feel my emotions when they occur. Therefore upsetting situations don't affect me on an emotional level. I don't store that negative energy in my pelvis anymore.

I also try to not go into negative thinking. I simply recognize it and stop when that happens.

I personally think mind body syndromes are everywhere. Now 1/3 of the population suffers from chronic pain. The rate of office visits for back pain is increasing by 7% every year. 100 years ago people fainted or had mysterious illnesses due to the speed of trains. 1970s ulcers are gone too. It is out of fashion so pain is more acceptable as an outlet for emotions.

Again if the pain sometimes mysteriously vanishes during a trip or if it is low when you wake up in the morning and starts a few minutes later, you may want to consider the possibility. There is no shame to it. The alternative (medical procedures) is not particularly appealing or successful.
2002 PN pain started following a fall on a wet marble floor
2004 Headache in the pelvis clinic. Diagnosed with PNE by Drs. Jerome Weiss, Stephen Mann, and Rodney Anderson
2004-2007 PT, Botox, diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Sheldon Jordan
2010 MRN and 3T MRI showing PNE. Diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Aaron Filler. 2 failed PNE surgeries.
2011-2012 Horrific PN pain.
2013 Experimented with various Mind-body modalities
3/2014 Significantly better
11/2014 Cured. No pain whatsoever since
User avatar
ezer
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:53 am

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby Dusty_in_Hope » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:52 pm

Hi Ezer

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to tell me about your case and for explaining the process.

I have had some experience of negative emotions losing their power on me, having allowed myself to feel my feelings in relation to upsetting incidents from my past in some therapy sessions that I had way back when.

However, I do struggle with present day stuff, i.e. negative emotions to do with an ongoing situation that I cannot get away from or change for the better. I will follow your advice and hopefully something will change viscerally for the better.

I am also reading some of the reference material that you posted earlier in this thread.

Thanks again,

Dusty
Dusty_in_Hope
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby ezer » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:21 pm

Dusty, you should read what Monte Hueftle has written. In his case it was the day to day stuff that was affecting him the most. Search for "Hueftle" on this site. I am traveling and posting from my phone but I'll look later for relevant material.

Pain and emotions are processed by the same area of the brain. It is not a stretch to accept that there is an interaction.
2002 PN pain started following a fall on a wet marble floor
2004 Headache in the pelvis clinic. Diagnosed with PNE by Drs. Jerome Weiss, Stephen Mann, and Rodney Anderson
2004-2007 PT, Botox, diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Sheldon Jordan
2010 MRN and 3T MRI showing PNE. Diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Aaron Filler. 2 failed PNE surgeries.
2011-2012 Horrific PN pain.
2013 Experimented with various Mind-body modalities
3/2014 Significantly better
11/2014 Cured. No pain whatsoever since
User avatar
ezer
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:53 am

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby sage721 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Ezer,

What trips me up in the mindbody conncetion is the following. I didn't have a physical trauma at the onset of my pain. I woke up one morning and took a 2 hour drive. On my return back, I started to experience burning sensation. The burning sensation was at the tip of the penis and would only occur when I sat. After a week, I went to a urologist and he prescribed atharax(anit-hestamine). 10 day dose.
Pain miraculously disappeared on the 10th day. Pain was gone for a month. It returned one month later. I was very stressed the months before the onset of pain. I am trying the mindbody approach. Read several books includindg Monte's. Original symptoms have evolved. No more burning at the tip of penis. Symptoms are mainly in pirineum and both buttocks, back of legs, and feet. I didn't have a lot of these symptoms in the beginning. Of course Doctors say CNS. I don't have pain when I sleep and symptoms start when my butt sits on a surface. Duration of symptom onset has shortened also. I don't experience pain when lying down. Only when I sit and stand in one spot. No pain exercising. This is my hang up. If I get up in the morning with no pain, sit on a chair, then the pain will start to creep in. The longer I sit troughout the day the symptoms get worse. However, if I get up in the morning, go to a toilet seat. Then no pain. No matter how much thinking I do throughout the day, if I go to a toilet seat, I have no symptoms. So, then I start thinking compression. I think that I must be putting pressure on a compressed nerve while sitting. Or else, why wouldn't I have symptoms on toilet seat? The mindbody doctors have told me that my mind is having me believe ... chair = pain, toilet seat = no pain. But this is where I have trouble accepting this theory. Your thoughts?
sage721
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:45 pm

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby Dusty_in_Hope » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:38 pm

Thanks Ezer,

I will definitely look up Hueftle - and thanks in advance for any more relevant material.

Dusty
Dusty_in_Hope
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby ezer » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:52 am

Dr. K. Andrews of ESWT fame had this post on mindbody on this forum that is very interesting:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3649&p=29058#p29058

This topic is not popular with chronic pain sufferers, for many reasons. Some reasons are valid, such as:
1) Resentment towards any mind/psychological/emotional component to pain as a result of being told by doctors that it is 'in the head' (most often because the doctor is unable to identify the cause due to a lack of understanding).
2) The nature of pain, and it's subconscious ability to create a defensive fear-based entrenchment into the very identity of a patient.
3) Addiction to pain, which is both psychological and chemical. Chemical addiction to pain occurs through up regulation of receptor sites and nerve-growth factors being produced as a result of a nociceptor receiving constant pain signals (much the same way a cigarette smoker has an up regulation of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChR), which causes a 'demand' for this the molecules that bind to the receptor sites). Pyschological addition to pain is a more difficult and taboo subject, and there are many various routes to address this, from spiritual to psychological to psychiatric (pharmaceutical).

Understanding the psychological and neurological and spiritual aspects of pain and suffering is one of the only ways a person can productively deal with their pain. One such teacher who has helped countless chronic pain patients and sufferers effectively deal with their pain is Eckart Tolle. This may resonate well with some patients, and not at all with others. Often, it is the case that a sufferers 'Pain-Body' and 'Ego' will attack any threats to the continuation of pain, thus we often see people react negatively to any methods such as that provided below.

There are may other more scientific lecturers who teach the mechanics of nociception, pain and the psycho-emotional components (and how to overcome being disabled and miserable as a result of pain). Dr. Joe Dispenza, Dr. Bruce Lipton, Dr. Candice Pert, to name a few, are great resources.

Again, this is not a denial of the existence of pain (nor denial of the insult to tissues responsible for nociception seen with PN/PNE), but rather a discussion of management of an important part of chronic pain (and its relation to quality of life).

It is still the case that the physical insult causing the nociception in PN/PNE cases must be addressed. But as with any condition (for example, with cancer patients, research demonstrates that those with a positive affect have higher survival rates than those who do not), the interpretation and perception of pain impacts the course of the disease.

Good luck everyone. I hope some positive direction, any direction at all, is welcomed (as opposed to the negative self-reinforcing behaviours that are all too common on these boards).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PCSe2cqY_w
2002 PN pain started following a fall on a wet marble floor
2004 Headache in the pelvis clinic. Diagnosed with PNE by Drs. Jerome Weiss, Stephen Mann, and Rodney Anderson
2004-2007 PT, Botox, diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Sheldon Jordan
2010 MRN and 3T MRI showing PNE. Diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Aaron Filler. 2 failed PNE surgeries.
2011-2012 Horrific PN pain.
2013 Experimented with various Mind-body modalities
3/2014 Significantly better
11/2014 Cured. No pain whatsoever since
User avatar
ezer
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:53 am

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby Dusty_in_Hope » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:41 pm

Ezer:

Thanks - especially for the Eckhart Tolle link. I've just listened to it and there's a 'part 2' on Youtube too, if anyone else is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUywv80CZY

Thank you too for posting every thing you have done about the mindbody connection on this forum - I'm reading everything.
Dusty_in_Hope
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby ezer » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:45 pm

From Monte Hueftle:

Reversing TMS and learning to live with TMS but without the chronic pain and symptom cycle interrupting your life requires Change.
Genuine change usually requires inspiration, constant reminders and quality reinforcement. Whether the goal is to lose weight, learn a new skill, quit smoking or reverse a chronic pain syndrome. These are all journeys that require change and constant reinforcement or you will most likely fail. Sad but true.

It is essential to understand that there is not a cure for TMS and there never will be! This is vital to understand if you want to reverse TMS successfully.
TMS is not some unconscious mind disorder caused by our brain and we are the helpless victim that someone has to come fix. Equally important to accept this point if you want to reverse TMS.

TMS is a mindbody syndrome and as long as we have a mind and a body we have the potential to experience mindbody effects! When you digest and accept this truth you are ready to initiate real change with genuine Acceptance.

TMS is a mindbody syndrome caused by our thought/behavior patterns that are doing two things:

1. Generating Inner Tension that automatically gets transmitted to our autonomic nervous system, which we then get the effects.

2. Repressing Emotional Energy (our patterns allow us to avoid or deny our emotions) this is the big, huge repression in TMS that generates more inner tension that gets communicated to our nervous system and we then get the effects or symptoms.

3. What makes TMS unique in the chronic pain disorder world is the Intelligent, Creative and Powerful Distraction Strategy that’s purpose is to Distract you but also Signal you that something is not balanced in your life.

4. As long as you have a mind and a body you will experience all types of mindbody effects and have the potential to experience chronic mindbody (TMS) symptoms at any time in your life.

This is a perfect time for TMS veterans and newbies to review the important Do’s and Don’ts of TMS.
“Not-to-do” lists are often more effective than to-do lists for upgrading performance and creating positive change, so we will start here:

1. Do not get distracted by pain or other TMS symptoms. Dr. Sarno taught us rule #1 – Pain/Symptom in TMS is a Signal to Think Psychological. If you are distracted and focusing on the symptom, what is wrong and who will fix me you are “feeding” the strategy and keeping the pain/symptom cycle going.

2. Do not get stuck thinking/analyzing/investigating that TMS is caused by deeply repressed emotions or some unknown unconscious event. Finish the unfinished business and heal the known wounds and put the majority of your energy in being present in your day-to-day living. Most of the repression in TMS is the day-to-day stuff!

3. Do not keep searching outside yourself for the answers to TMS. This includes help/support groups, internet searching or believing that you must be diagnosed by a TMS doctor before you can accept TMS. This type of searching (distraction) will usually “feed” the strategy or is your “crutch” for not beginning your own genuine “inner work/change”.

4. Do not expect TMS and the Intelligent Pain/Symptom strategy to behave rationally. Your work, if you accept TMS is to “think psychological”, don’t be distracted and pay more genuine attention to how you are being and make some (open, allowing, flexible, balanced) changes in how your thoughts, attitudes & behaviors are playing out in your daily life. Don’t try to analyze and rationalize intellectually with the TMS strategy. This makes you feel like you are taking positive action but usually ends of “feeding” the strategy. We are not going to know and understand everything about the TMS strategy and how/why/when it works as it does. This is perfectly fine, we don’t need to!

5. Do not casually accept TMS and give it a shot to see if “think psychologically” will work for you. It takes 100% acceptance and genuine inner work to reverse TMS. The casual, skeptical acceptance approach is fear based. The TMS strategy knows this and will keep you stuck in the pain/symptom cycle. Belief with confidence and conviction is the communication that reverses the strategy.

6. Do not become consumed with reversing TMS. In most cases this will backfire by “feeding” the strategy and prolonging your chronic symptoms. Yes, you are excited that now you know the real cause and you want to fix it ASAP. Put more of your energy/attention into genuine inner work. Getting consumed with all the different aspects of TMS is distraction, meaning the strategy has you! There is a balance between struggling and fighting the strategy and in accepting it and understanding the change message for you to begin making in your life!

7. Important: Do not take the attitude or think about your TMS treatment (Thinking psychologically, Thinking clean, Being with Emotions, Journaling, Being Present, Root Lock, Resuming Activity, Stopping Physical Treatment, Etc.) as a treatment that you have to do to fix TMS. Yes, it is, but when you genuinely “get it”, that this is mindbody and your work is the mind and the purpose behind all of this is to Signal you to bring some change into your life, then you understand it is not a treatment to fix TMS, it is a message for you to be more open, allowing, balanced, present moment, and flexible in your life! And when you do that without thinking about TMS, you more effectively and efficiently reverse the pain/symptom cycle!

Stay the course
Monte Hueftle
2002 PN pain started following a fall on a wet marble floor
2004 Headache in the pelvis clinic. Diagnosed with PNE by Drs. Jerome Weiss, Stephen Mann, and Rodney Anderson
2004-2007 PT, Botox, diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Sheldon Jordan
2010 MRN and 3T MRI showing PNE. Diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Aaron Filler. 2 failed PNE surgeries.
2011-2012 Horrific PN pain.
2013 Experimented with various Mind-body modalities
3/2014 Significantly better
11/2014 Cured. No pain whatsoever since
User avatar
ezer
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:53 am

Re: Mindbody Therapy

Postby ezer » Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:11 pm

Dusty_in_Hope wrote:Ezer:

Thanks - especially for the Eckhart Tolle link. I've just listened to it and there's a 'part 2' on Youtube too, if anyone else is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUywv80CZY

Thank you too for posting every thing you have done about the mindbody connection on this forum - I'm reading everything.


Thanks. Yes he is amazing. I particularly like the following:

EMOTION: THE BODY'S REACTION TO YOUR MIND

September, 2001 by Eckhart Tolle

Mind, in the way I use the word, is not just thought. It includes your emotions as well as all unconscious mental-emotional reactive patterns. Emotion arises at the place where mind and body meet. It is the body's reaction to your mind — or you might say a reflection of your mind in the body.

The more you are identified with your thinking, your likes and dislikes, judgments and interpretations, which is to say the less present you are as the watching consciousness, the stronger the emotional energy charge will be, whether you are aware of it or not.

If you cannot feel your emotions, if you are cut off from them, you will eventually experience them on a purely physical level, as a physical problem or symptom.

IF YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY FEELING YOUR EMOTIONS, start by focusing attention on the inner energy field of your body. Feel the body from within. This will also put you in touch with your emotions. If you really want to know your mind, the body will always give you a truthful reflection, so look at the emotion, or rather feel it in your body. If there is an apparent conflict between them, the thought will be the lie, the emotion will be the truth. Not the ultimate truth of who you are, but the relative truth of your state of mind at that time.

You may not yet be able to bring your unconscious mind activity into awareness as thoughts, but it will always be reflected in the body as an emotion, and of this you can become aware.

To watch an emotion in this way is basically the same as listening to or watching a thought, which I described earlier. The only difference is that, while a thought is in your head, an emotion has a strong physical component and so is primarily felt in the body. You can then allow the emotion to be there without being controlled by it. You no longer are the emotion; you are the watcher, the observing presence.

If you practice this, all that is unconscious in you will be brought into the light of consciousness.

MAKE IT A HABIT TO ASK YOURSELF: What's going on inside me at this moment? That question will point you in the right direction. But don't analyze, just watch. Focus your attention within. Feel the energy of the emotion. If there is no emotion present, take your attention more deeply into the inner energy field of your body. It is the doorway into Being.
2002 PN pain started following a fall on a wet marble floor
2004 Headache in the pelvis clinic. Diagnosed with PNE by Drs. Jerome Weiss, Stephen Mann, and Rodney Anderson
2004-2007 PT, Botox, diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Sheldon Jordan
2010 MRN and 3T MRI showing PNE. Diagnosed with PNE by Dr. Aaron Filler. 2 failed PNE surgeries.
2011-2012 Horrific PN pain.
2013 Experimented with various Mind-body modalities
3/2014 Significantly better
11/2014 Cured. No pain whatsoever since
User avatar
ezer
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:53 am

PreviousNext

Return to OTHER THERAPIES

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron