Dr Michael Durtnall

[Marwa B]

One day in November 2016, Spine mangled and eyes ridden with migraine pain, I dragged myself out of bed. I felt the incessant compulsion to go to the bathroom, that had been plaguing my pelvic area for years now, and with it, a tinge of hopelessness. My days revolved around waking up early, hours before everyone else, to use the bathroom (several times), do back and neck stretches, and wait for the pain medication to kick in. I took digestive enzymes with every meal, and a cocktail of painkillers every morning. I bumbled along around my symptoms, which were extensive to say the least, determined to have some kind of life. I was always in pain, but I resigned myself to it.
Over the past five years, after a fall on the coccyx, I’d developed severe pelvic pain, discomfort, and a relentless need to use the bathroom without ever feeling any relief. I had shooting pain down my leg when I walked. I always had nausea and indigestion, sometimes I could barely keep food down. I had chronic shoulder pain, blinding sudden migraines and numbness in my hands. After a several vague medical diagnosis including; IBS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Gastroparesis, which led to a long and futile list of medications; Buscopan, metoclopramide, codeine, diazepam, omeprazole, tramadol, citalopram and micralax, to name a few. The doctors had written me off, and to be honest so had I. I knew that my back pain was probably the root cause of all my issues. I had been seeing chiropractors on and off with varying degrees of success, although none of it lasting, it proved my theory. I was sure it was all connected, but no one seemed to be able to piece it together or cure me.
I took the mild relief I got from chiropractic adjustments and tried to manage as best as I could.
On this particular day, I was being dragged to see a new doctor. Tired of watching me suffer, my partner decided to step in. He’d spent the days prior, emailing and calling clinics all over the world, and trawling through reviews. I appreciated his enthusiasm, but I was hopeless. I couldn’t imagine what anyone else could do for me, after all chiropractic is chiropractic right? And I was already doing that. He booked me an appointment with Dr Michael Durtnall at The Sayer Clinic. I went along, only really to shut him up.
From the moment I met Dr. Durtnall I knew he was different. He immersed himself in everything he did, frantically x-raying me and pushing and prodding and assessing every aspect of my spine and posture. He was like a mad scientist. After a thorough assessment, he said: “Don’t worry, we can fix you.” I was floored. I’d only ever heard doctors talk about managing my condition. He told me that I had Pudendal Neuralgia. Finally, this odd, embarrassing, and life-ruining set of symptoms had a name. Over the next few weeks I went to see him religiously, we worked on my pelvic floor, my posture and muscles, and unbelievably but surely, the symptoms started to dissipate! Years upon years of agony, started to dissolve with every visit. Michael had no interest in managing anything, he was going to cure it!
As I write this now, a few months later, I am essentially SYMPTOM FREE. The slight twangs I have here and there are mere drops, to the ocean of debilitating pain and suffering I used to experience. My life absolutely revolved around symptoms, they governed every part of my day, and now I’m free. I’m slowly starting to exercise again, I eat out with my friends, I think about other things aside from pain meds and going to the toilet! I learned that not all Chiropractic medicine is created equal. Dr. Durtnall is a leader in this field, and The authority on this subject, no other clinic in London and possibly the world, has this level of understanding when it comes to the spine, pelvic floor, and Pudendal Neuralgia. Its evident in the pleasant nods we exchange in his waiting room, his patients’ eyes are always full of renewed hope, as are mine when I look at life now. If you are suffering, stop, there is hope out there, go to the Sayer Clinic and get the right help, this is what they do.

[Alan1646]

no other clinic in London and possibly the world, has this level of understanding when it comes to the spine, pelvic floor, and Pudendal Neuralgia.

Really! No other clinic in London! Does that include clinics at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital and the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery? Does that include all the staff of clinics at those hospitals, including internationally published and respected consultants , surgeons and pain specialists? How about Dr Ruth Jones, for example-does that include her?
Please explain Marwa, how did you come to the above conclusion? Are there any published statistics to support your claim? How did you carry out such a comparison? I wonder why the government bothers to fund the NHS when there is such an omniscient expert and miracle worker at hand. And before you accuse me of being sarcastic by the use of the term "miracle worker", just read some of the messianic posts on here about Dr Durtnall. "This tribute is dedicated to you dear Dr Michael Durtnall that brings healing to our loved ones.
In scanning this great earth, God fell upon a multitude of needs. In God's giving ways, his hands were placed on you dear Dr Durtnall to heal pudendal nerve entrapment and coccyx pain. May the angels watch over you and continue to grace you with your skills of excellence and the healing power of the holy spirit Stuart.
And all these positive posts about Dr Durtnall, using similar language , similar phrases and usually ending in an imperative to go to see Dr Durtnall- has a single one of those posts been verified? Is there any claim on these forums about the remarkable healing powers of Dr Durtnall that has been investigated and been proven correct?
And when there is a breath of genuine skepticism, Violet, you accuse people of being "negative". You say you can't check whether posts are genuine or not-but you can look at all these posts and make a judgement about whether all of these claims of miraculous cures - that apparently no-one else in London-or indeed the world-has been able to achieve, are credible.

[Violet M]

And all these positive posts about Dr Durtnall, using similar language , similar phrases and usually ending in an imperative to go to see Dr Durtnall- has a single one of those posts been verified? Is there any claim on these forums about the remarkable healing powers of Dr Durtnall that has been investigated and been proven correct?

Alan, I agree with you that the sentence you quoted above by Marwa sounds like an exaggeration but as far as people on the forum using similar language, when Jason used language similar to someone else on this forum you didn't seem to see any problem with it. When one person came on the forum and posted as several different people recommending the mindbody approach you had no problem with it whatsoever. Sounds like a double standard to me.

Also, Alan, if you want something investigated, maybe you would like to help out and investigate it.

Marwa, I am very happy for you that you had a good experience with Dr. Durtnall.

Violet

[Alan1646]

I agree with you that the sentence you quoted above by Marwa sounds like an exaggeration

Firstly, why not let Marwa herself answer?
Violet, I think you need to distinguish between "an exaggeration" and a declarative statement that has no basis in fact..

when Jason used language similar to someone else on this forum you didn't seem to see any problem with it.

You'll have to explain what you mean. Which other poster? Which language? Please explain in detail the similarities in language you refer to.

When one person came on the forum and posted as several different people recommending the mindbody approach you had no problem with it whatsoever.

Again, I don't know what you mean by this. I don't know which person posted as several different people about the mindbody approach. You'll have to explain this Violet.
To be clear, we are talking about a large number of posts about Dr Durtnall having much the same structure , language features ,and very similar endings, endings which are imperatives urging readers to go to see Dr Durtnall. Is there any other practitioner on this forum about whom you can say the same?
You haven't answered my questions about evidence and verification of the statements made in posts about Dr Durtnall.

[Buttercup28]

I don't know anything about this doctor personally. I keep seeing his name pop up on the forum though and so after seeing his name come up in so many threads I realized that his name sounds familiar. It's familiar because of someone that I've recently been discussing pelvic pain/hip impingement with on another blog separate from here. She mentioned that she went to see Dr. Durtnall and he did help her somewhat. She is from the U.S. so she flew to see him in London last year. But, it was a 'small dent as far as impact', so being treated by him didn't fix her by any means.

~ Buttercup

[Rob73]

PN is a bad companion and everyone should be very careful in suggesting options and make statements.
Arguments are useless as well.

[Marwa B]

Hi,

Alan, I'm not sure why you get so worked up about this... You're being extremely pedantic, and seem to just take issue with any positive statement about this treatment.
In context of recounting a personal story, one is free to make statements, whether exaggerated (although I stand by mine) or otherwise. We're not writing in medical journals based on studies that we've conducted ourselves, we're sharing our stories here. So please, do try to relax a little, and perhaps if this subject offends you so deeply, stop obsessively attempting to deconstruct every single post about it, and focus on something that generates positivity in you instead?
I've seen no evidence that any other clinic provides treatment that preserves the nerve and it's functionality, let alone attempts to heal it, as opposed to just treating the symptoms that arise from entrapment/compression. This is what my statement was based on.
Your quote of the ''messianic'' poster, proves that the language used in these posts is actually starkly varied, I don't think anyone can find anything remotely similar to that kind of language in my original post, or any of my subsequent ones.
I tried to offer you the chance to discuss the specifics of this kind of treatment with me on another thread, something you had been calling for Sayer patients to do, at which point the conversation dwindled to this inconsequential statement from you:
"It is true that there are no direct advertisements for Dr Durtnall and his clinics on these forums. However, he does point potential patients to the reviews here on his website"
As I mentioned before, I'm not sure your interested in any real progress or understanding on this subject.

[Alan1646]

Alan, I'm not sure why you get so worked up about this

If you're not sure, I'll try to make it clear why I'm concerned, as are quite a number of others who have posted here on this topic . Saying I'm "worked up" does not address the issues raised. That phrase implies that I'm over reacting and emotional whereas, in fact, I'm concerned about evidence for Dr Durtnall's treatments for PN. Is there any evidence other than anonymous reviews? If you know of some peer reviewed studies that we can read, please say so.
In my opinion,some of the statements made go far beyond "exaggeration".

stop obsessively attempting to deconstruct every single post about it,

I think that characterising someone who asks for evidence as "obsessive" is an ad hominem response. As far as I have been able to glean from posts on this forum, Dr Durtnall uses mainly a combination of chiropractic adjustments and massage, together with some "dry needling" in his treatments for PN. I see nothing wrong with discussing the evidence, or lack of, for such treatments.
There has also been some discussion and analysis of the posts urging patients to see Dr Durtnall. I have not been the only poster who has contributed to the discussion. Remarkable similarities in language in different posts have been referred to. What's wrong with pointing that out?
The argument has been put forward that other therapies that people resort to are without evidence too.It doesn't follow that we should therefore not ask for evidence for any treatments at all. I would suggest also that Dr Durtnall is in a special position as he is a "Pudendal Help Advisor", a person with some status and authority in the field of Pudendal Neuralgia: therefore it is reasonable to request evidence.

[Marwa B]

Hi Alan,

Dr. Durtnall is your most active subject. Your most active subject is one you seem compelled to attack from every angle - If its not the lack of peer reviewed evidence, its the anonymity of the posters, if not that, its the style of language, if not that, its the ambiguity of the treatments. And despite all these questions being answered for you, as best as people can, you reject the answers and go around in circles. This is beyond concern, and quite frankly, paranoia.
I was posing the idea that it might be more productive for you, and us, if you spend your time discussing something you had some constructive views on.

Let's try to address all your concerns once and for all, to help you along:

1) Where's the evidence?
You're asking for a type of evidence that simply hasn't been compiled yet, as this is a pioneering way of thinking and treating this issue (as I explained previously!).
I, as a patient, can only discuss with you my experience. Stop asking patients for peer reviewed studies and look some up for yourself, if you can't find any and you can't accept the anecdotal evidence we are giving you here, then why not focus on a treatment that better satisfies your thirst for medical academia?

2) Why do posters leave a one off review?
Personally, I only became aware of this site after diagnosis and only had something to post after treatment, the idea was to share my story with other sufferers so that they might find some relief too. I had no compulsion to ever post again, until I noticed all this commotion calling for one-off posters to engage more. I imagine that's also the reason other people only post once too, they simply want to get their experience out there. People posting once on a forum is quite a common phenomena, happens across subjects and websites, and is not specific to this one.

3) Why are there similarities in the language of these posts?
Again, your own quotes actually highlight the stark differences in the language of these posts. In fact the similarities are rather unremarkable, aside from following a well-written format, that people writing a story about their experience usually tend to follow anyway. And even this isn't consistent in every post, I saw one that was barely a few sentences. I'm sure we could find a ton of specific discrepancies if we went through them all with a fine toothed comb - But who wants to nit pick like that eh? Lets focus on more productive things...

4) What are the specifics of this treatment?
As I detailed for you previously, the treatment is based on optimum musculoskeletal alignment. If the pelvis is in ideal position and has mobility, then there is nothing to trap the Pudendal nerve or interfere with it's function, if there is nothing to trap the nerve or interfere with it's function, then PN cannot exist! Pretty obvious and logical, right? So, physio, manipulation, muscle release, postural work and anything else they can do, to stabilise the pelvis and return correct mobility, is the treatment. They are well versed in the spine, coccyx and pelvic floor, in my experience, and combine these different methods of manipulation, case by case, to achieve the necessary function.

Now I'll answer my favourite question of yours: What's wrong with pointing that out?
What's wrong Alan, is that people come on here and share their personal stories in the spirit of hope and community, only to have them pedantically dissected by you, be interrogated on their style of language, and badgered for evidence beyond their capacity as a patient. The unifying tone in all your questions isn't inquisitive or rational, as you paint it, rather it's accusatory and ill-disposed. You have no real interest in the answers to these questions, Alan. That's whats wrong.

[Violet M]

Firstly, why not let Marwa herself answer?

She can and she is, but since you asked me to investigate I thought it was fair for me to answer.

Violet