Hey All,
So I have been digging away at this crazy pne journey and I am wondering what is the difference between these two nerves. Can hypogastric nerve compression mimic pne type symptoms ?
I have absolutely no urge to urinate. Unlike many pne suffers who have increased urgency I have no urge to urinate at all. I guess I wonder if my chronic pelvic pain is in fact PN related or Hypogastric nerve related. And is there anyway to know. Another thing to note is pelvic floor therapy does nothing for me. When my PT presses on my pudendal nerve internally I do not feel anything. No pain Or reproduction of pain.
Any thoughts about any of this ?
-Dom
pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
Pudendal pain started in Feb 2014. Potter MRI- useless findings (dont waste your money), tried pelvic floor pt, ART, Trigenics, Osteopathic treatment, fascial work, Massage, Shockwave, world renown chiros, osteopaths and PTs, stretching bla bla. Nothing helped but shockwave (which was short lived) and one world renown chiro that is a douchebag because he cant treat me again. All in all, God is the only one who can lead your path.
Re: pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
Dom, I don't remember what all of your symptoms are. If I remember correctly you had some symptoms suggestive of pudendal nerve involvement but others that weren't.
You might find this website interesting. It discusses the role of the hypogastric plexus in innervation of the bladder. http://www.med.umich.edu/lrc/coursepage ... nomics.pdf
This website is a little less technical on some of the anatomy.
http://arizonapain.com/pain-center/pain ... ic-plexus/
From my past research I've concluded that the pudendal nerve innervates the bladder sphincter.
Page 2 of the Nantes Team article has an interesting paragraph in the second column suggesting that sensorimotor deficits are not likely to be caused by pudendal neuralgia that is due to nerve entrapment.
http://www.pudendalhope.info/sites/defa ... iteria.pdf
Don't know if any of this helps or not. Did your PT have any idea what might be going on?
Violet
You might find this website interesting. It discusses the role of the hypogastric plexus in innervation of the bladder. http://www.med.umich.edu/lrc/coursepage ... nomics.pdf
This website is a little less technical on some of the anatomy.
http://arizonapain.com/pain-center/pain ... ic-plexus/
From my past research I've concluded that the pudendal nerve innervates the bladder sphincter.
Page 2 of the Nantes Team article has an interesting paragraph in the second column suggesting that sensorimotor deficits are not likely to be caused by pudendal neuralgia that is due to nerve entrapment.
http://www.pudendalhope.info/sites/defa ... iteria.pdf
Don't know if any of this helps or not. Did your PT have any idea what might be going on?
Violet
PNE since 2002. Started from weightlifting. PNE surgery from Dr. Bautrant, Oct 2004. Pain now is usually a 0 and I can sit for hours on certain chairs. No longer take medication for PNE. Can work full time and do "The Firm" exercise program. 99% cured from PGAD. PNE surgery was right for me but it might not be for you. Do your research.
Re: pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
Hey Violet,
Thanks for the info. I'll read up on it tomorrow.
My PT has no clue whats going on with me but she said my symptoms are not really PN common. Although now I'm starting to see more PN symptoms. I've actualot tried to do some pudendal nerve flossing (pudendal nerve mobilization) and I have gotten worse the last 3 weeks. I now have extreme levator ani muscle spasms.
Not really sure what's going on. Last year in November I went to see a top chiropractor that only treats upscale clients and after one treatment my pain went down to almost a 0, I had the urge to urinate again for 4 days and my sensation and blood flow to my genitals came back. I felt normal for 4 days. It was incredible. All that from juat one treatmwnt. Now the bad part, he was unable to see me again bc he said he "travels a lot". Referred me to a friend that said would be able to help finish the job. And obviously his friend didn't do the same as the original chiro. So Im stuck. I had that glimpse of hope and then the darkness came back overshadowing me.
Few things stood out to him though. I am compressed by my inguinal ligament (by the transversalis fascia), also have a lot of adhesions by the thoracolumbar fascia and the fascia by the QL muscle. I have a slight twerked pelvis and my left glute isn't firing correctly which probably led to my muscle and pelvic imbalance. Anyways, long story short he basically released all the fascia in the abdominal and pelvic cavity. He was mainly focusing on fascia. I know this condition is all connective tissue related. It has to be. Just because I had such amazing relief from one treatment. But now I'm stuck bc I have no idea what to do. I've regressed so much since November bc I've been trying to get other chiros to replicate his treatment. Which they can't. So I'm putting my body tthough pure stress Trying to figure all this out. Even contemplating surgery now bc of this. But it's hard to think like that bc I had such great results off one treatment. So my mind is stuck. Surgery or do nothing and wait for a "miracle" for the Dame chiro to treat me.
I believe the answer is out there. That people can help. But it takes finding the right person to come out of this. I also believe that if a treatment isn't working don't waste your time, effort or money. Move on to someone else. A fresh pair of Eyes. I've fallen into the complacency trap many times. Trying 30 PT treatments with no difference and continue to go back. Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting something different but receiving the same result. And here I am, being stupid.
Don't know what to do now though. Search the moon and the sky for another expert chiropractor or take the surgical route. Feels like an episode of pinky and the brain.
-Dom
Thanks for the info. I'll read up on it tomorrow.
My PT has no clue whats going on with me but she said my symptoms are not really PN common. Although now I'm starting to see more PN symptoms. I've actualot tried to do some pudendal nerve flossing (pudendal nerve mobilization) and I have gotten worse the last 3 weeks. I now have extreme levator ani muscle spasms.
Not really sure what's going on. Last year in November I went to see a top chiropractor that only treats upscale clients and after one treatment my pain went down to almost a 0, I had the urge to urinate again for 4 days and my sensation and blood flow to my genitals came back. I felt normal for 4 days. It was incredible. All that from juat one treatmwnt. Now the bad part, he was unable to see me again bc he said he "travels a lot". Referred me to a friend that said would be able to help finish the job. And obviously his friend didn't do the same as the original chiro. So Im stuck. I had that glimpse of hope and then the darkness came back overshadowing me.
Few things stood out to him though. I am compressed by my inguinal ligament (by the transversalis fascia), also have a lot of adhesions by the thoracolumbar fascia and the fascia by the QL muscle. I have a slight twerked pelvis and my left glute isn't firing correctly which probably led to my muscle and pelvic imbalance. Anyways, long story short he basically released all the fascia in the abdominal and pelvic cavity. He was mainly focusing on fascia. I know this condition is all connective tissue related. It has to be. Just because I had such amazing relief from one treatment. But now I'm stuck bc I have no idea what to do. I've regressed so much since November bc I've been trying to get other chiros to replicate his treatment. Which they can't. So I'm putting my body tthough pure stress Trying to figure all this out. Even contemplating surgery now bc of this. But it's hard to think like that bc I had such great results off one treatment. So my mind is stuck. Surgery or do nothing and wait for a "miracle" for the Dame chiro to treat me.
I believe the answer is out there. That people can help. But it takes finding the right person to come out of this. I also believe that if a treatment isn't working don't waste your time, effort or money. Move on to someone else. A fresh pair of Eyes. I've fallen into the complacency trap many times. Trying 30 PT treatments with no difference and continue to go back. Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting something different but receiving the same result. And here I am, being stupid.
Don't know what to do now though. Search the moon and the sky for another expert chiropractor or take the surgical route. Feels like an episode of pinky and the brain.
-Dom
Pudendal pain started in Feb 2014. Potter MRI- useless findings (dont waste your money), tried pelvic floor pt, ART, Trigenics, Osteopathic treatment, fascial work, Massage, Shockwave, world renown chiros, osteopaths and PTs, stretching bla bla. Nothing helped but shockwave (which was short lived) and one world renown chiro that is a douchebag because he cant treat me again. All in all, God is the only one who can lead your path.
Re: pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
By the way, sorry for my intense grammar and spelling mistakes, I'm not illiterate Im just typing on my phone. Two business degrees had to have gotten me somewhere right .... 
Pudendal pain started in Feb 2014. Potter MRI- useless findings (dont waste your money), tried pelvic floor pt, ART, Trigenics, Osteopathic treatment, fascial work, Massage, Shockwave, world renown chiros, osteopaths and PTs, stretching bla bla. Nothing helped but shockwave (which was short lived) and one world renown chiro that is a douchebag because he cant treat me again. All in all, God is the only one who can lead your path.
Re: pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
Violet,
When they talk about sensorimotor deficits and sensory impairments I wonder if they are only talking about the skin and the perineum. Because no where there does it say bladder functuon. But still non the less it's interesting. I just really wonder if there is anyone else like me that has no urge to urinate. From your long period of time on the forum do you remember anyone having that symptom ? An under active bladder or no urge to urinate ....
-Dom
When they talk about sensorimotor deficits and sensory impairments I wonder if they are only talking about the skin and the perineum. Because no where there does it say bladder functuon. But still non the less it's interesting. I just really wonder if there is anyone else like me that has no urge to urinate. From your long period of time on the forum do you remember anyone having that symptom ? An under active bladder or no urge to urinate ....
-Dom
Pudendal pain started in Feb 2014. Potter MRI- useless findings (dont waste your money), tried pelvic floor pt, ART, Trigenics, Osteopathic treatment, fascial work, Massage, Shockwave, world renown chiros, osteopaths and PTs, stretching bla bla. Nothing helped but shockwave (which was short lived) and one world renown chiro that is a douchebag because he cant treat me again. All in all, God is the only one who can lead your path.
Re: pudendal nerve vs superior hypogastric nerve
Dom, yes, I've heard loss of urge described a few times but more commonly it's a symptom of having to strain to push urine out. In Robert's article where it mentions sensorimotor deficits, I'm not sure if that's referring to the skin or includes sphincter's, etc. Lots of guys have posted on loss of penile sensation though.
That's interesting about your experience with the chiropractor. Before my PNE surgery I had one chiropractic treatment where she worked really hard on my SI joint area with a vibrating tool and after the treatment my pain and PGAD almost disappeared for about a day. It felt like my pelvis had been adjusted more into alignment and took the pressure off the pudendal nerve; however, at the same time I had a new symptom of leg weakness and felt like the sciatic nerve wasn't functioning properly. When she finished the treatment I could not lift my leg off the table and when I tried to walk my leg buckled out from under me. But it was like heaven being rid of the PN symptoms temporarily. Basically that experience told me there was something mechanical pressing on the nerve. Unfortunately, after one more treatment the chiropractor "fired" me and said she couldn't help anymore because my pelvis wouldn't hold an alignment due to chronically strained ligaments. I think my leg weakness after that one treatment scared her too. That's really unfortunate you can't keep seeing that one chiro who helped you. I wonder if that chiro would be willing to teach the technique to the other chiro someday when he's in town and not on travel...
Wow, it's a tough decision you have to make.
Violet
That's interesting about your experience with the chiropractor. Before my PNE surgery I had one chiropractic treatment where she worked really hard on my SI joint area with a vibrating tool and after the treatment my pain and PGAD almost disappeared for about a day. It felt like my pelvis had been adjusted more into alignment and took the pressure off the pudendal nerve; however, at the same time I had a new symptom of leg weakness and felt like the sciatic nerve wasn't functioning properly. When she finished the treatment I could not lift my leg off the table and when I tried to walk my leg buckled out from under me. But it was like heaven being rid of the PN symptoms temporarily. Basically that experience told me there was something mechanical pressing on the nerve. Unfortunately, after one more treatment the chiropractor "fired" me and said she couldn't help anymore because my pelvis wouldn't hold an alignment due to chronically strained ligaments. I think my leg weakness after that one treatment scared her too. That's really unfortunate you can't keep seeing that one chiro who helped you. I wonder if that chiro would be willing to teach the technique to the other chiro someday when he's in town and not on travel...
Wow, it's a tough decision you have to make.
Violet
PNE since 2002. Started from weightlifting. PNE surgery from Dr. Bautrant, Oct 2004. Pain now is usually a 0 and I can sit for hours on certain chairs. No longer take medication for PNE. Can work full time and do "The Firm" exercise program. 99% cured from PGAD. PNE surgery was right for me but it might not be for you. Do your research.